MP from NF, member of the Board of the Ministry of internal Affairs Anton Gerashchenko in an interview to television channel “112 Ukraine” said the good Minister Arsen Avakov, who demonize “Azov”, as well as on the investigation of the murder of an Elder, Pavel Sheremet and Denis Boronenkov
Gordon: “Gordon” and my guest today people\’s Deputy of Ukraine Anton Gerashchenko.
Good evening. Do you agree with the fact that today continues in the interior Ministry is thriving nepotism, bribery and corruption?
Gerashchenko: It\’s not thriving, but that these phenomena are still the place to be – certainly is. And who said that it is easy to change hundreds of thousands of police, now the police, in a few years? This is a big process. We started with the patrol police – hired for 16 thousand young boys and girls to work through the contests. For today already there is the situation when they were watching the drivers and extorting them for $ 100. They do not stand in the bushes and waving a wand, selling violations for 50 hryvnia. The same process is now with the investigation. The unreformed until, part is a Department of fight against economic crimes. However, we are creating a new riot, a new service of district inspectors, and all of this is beneficial to our society. But it is impossible to do simultaneously.
– The public are interested in, why not quick and decisive reform of the police, as it would belo, for example, in Georgia?
– Georgia has many stories, fantastic, about how it well. If it was all so wonderful, then Saakashvili would remain on the Georgian President or a respected person. Since there is not so good, President Saakashvili referred to us. And Ukraine, respectively, sent the mister Chernovetsky to Georgia\’s exchange. This is the first time. Second – Georgia is a country with a population of just over 3 million people. When there is the unfolding of the reform, they didn\’t have war. And we had to do reform, one hand fighting with Russia, and the second is making reform of the police. It is very difficult.
– Arsen Avakov good Minister?
– I think he is one of the best Ministers of the current government. One of the most experienced Ministers. And every year his experience, his wisdom grows. Not really ready Ministers, they become. Therefore, I believe that the government they have to work at least a few years in order to be able to implement the projects started. Today, the government has only two Ministers who work all three years – the Minister of justice P. Petrenko, A. Avakov. These two ministries, according to conclusions of many Ukrainian and foreign experts, are leaders in implementing reforms.
– Is it true that the battalion “Azov” is today an elite army of A. Avakov?
– Not true. Fighters “Azov” has brought an oath of allegiance to the people of Ukraine, like any other Ukrainian military, a soldier, a national guardsman. First and foremost, it\’s the guys who protect our country. I\’m in the 14th year he engaged in the formation of the battalion “Azov”. We took guys from the Maidan, and these guys liberated Mariupol on June 13-14th. At that time we were inactive and the security service and the army, and we have not found anyone, except for 150 guys, who yesterday did not carry weapons, in order to release the center of the 500-thousandth of the city. There is a huge amount of propaganda and Russian fakes that are doing the below in the eyes of Ukrainians and the West to imagine that it is the villains who are prone to fascism. You need to separate truth from propaganda. And the fact that in every military unit, National guard are the people who have given up, so it happens. There is a law of large numbers: for every thousand people, sooner or later there will be someone who will violate the law. Let\’s responsible.
– Several people, among them former generals of the SBU and the interior Ministry, told me that “Azov” train at the elite base in Novopetrovo. That the number of the “Azov” comes to 2-3 thousand people. What is the average salary a thousand dollars, and the salary of an officer from 2 to 5 thousand dollars. Is it true?
– This is absolute nonsense. The soldiers of the national guard regiment “Azov” get exactly the same material and monetary support, as well as other units. Salaries for officers in the 3-5 thousand dollars in the Ukrainian army, unfortunately, does not exist. With regard to training at the base in Petrovac, then the main base, where trains “Azov” is a perfect base near Mariupol, which, with the assistance of the battalion “Azov” was built. In Petrovac is the base for the protection of Kiev, and there if the “Azov” there are, it is only on some shooting or competitions. There is a huge position on the demonization of the battalion “Azov”. Including its use as a Scarecrow, or bugbear.
– Who is interested in it?
– Those who fear that the country, can be allegedly a military coup and the battalion “Azov” and his honorary commander Biletsky can do this revolution. It\’s all absolute nonsense. A. Biletsky, who I know well for the last 3.5 years, absolutely adequate person, and he knows that no military coups in this country will not be saved. And you will save a democratic, confident, strong Board.
– I had to repeatedly hear that President Poroshenko is afraid of the battalion “Azov”, because they can make a coup and A. Avakov holds their positions because of it.
– A. Avakov holds its position due to the fact that he is a Minister from the faction of the NF, which has 81 deputies, and it is along with BPP the basis of the coalition. If the coalition is not, the Parliament may be dissolved, new elections announced, and the new coalition will appoint a new Minister of internal Affairs. If the President considers it necessary now to dissolve Parliament, let him do it.
– I.e. Poroshenko, Avakov is not afraid?
– Such thing as “afraid not scared” does not exist in this case. Is the concept of “political competition”. P. A. Poroshenko wants to be re-elected for a second term. Will this fit the interests of the faction of the NF, yet the public is not stated. Can be different presidential candidates. There is the presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko. I, for example, it is totally unacceptable. I believe that this is the man who is going to bring Ukraine under the yoke of Russia and is ready to enter into secret pacts with Putin. As for the third possible candidate, if you look at the opinion polls, there is quite a limited bench. The opinion polls put, for example, S. Vakarchuk. Need to ask him the question whether he is ready to become President of Ukraine in the same condition in which it is? There is a known candidate O. V. Lyashko, he had already gained the third ranking in the 2014 year, and I think he will have to run for the next election (if he will not interfere in this story). May be candidate A. Garden.
– What\’s the story?
– Everything is constantly changing. A month ago MP, Rosenblatt went to Parliament and talked about the adoption of the law on the amber. Now he goes in for questioning. Therefore, there are different situations. In our country one should never say never either from prison or from poverty.
– You said that the President is good, any the interior Minister on the condition that his name not Avakov.
Yes. The President of Ukraine Petr Poroshenko would like to fully control all the Ministers, all factions, all Parliament. It is a natural desire in conditions of Ukrainian reality at the 26th year of democracy. Yushchenko seems to be weak, frail President, but interfered in the work of the Parliament, Prime Minister, etc. that\’s Why I say that, of course, the President would like to have the Minister of internal Affairs of the other person, which would have been the most loyal to him. But today, we are still a democracy. This means that the elected Parliament and the party formed a coalition and given Ministers. NF but Avakov, gave such Ministers as Grinevich, Semerak, Omeljan, Petrenko, Zhdanov. Therefore, we can say that this is our team, which was responsible for such things, and the result of their work was done or not done such reforms. Accordingly therefore, we will count the results in the next election.
– Once you are in Kharkiv was the assistant to G. Kernes. Who is that person?
Is a person who craves absolute power, absolute obedience and all. My fate took him when I was 19-23 years. We worked quite close together, I was involved in, including elections to the city Council of Kharkov. I was the youngest Deputy of the Kharkov city Council. But then I realized that Mr. Kernes is not the man who wants good for Kharkov. It can create the Gorky Park, or any other projects, but it does not forget himself and his team. And most importantly, and then for these projects are very expensive to have to pay in the future leaders of Kharkiv and future city councils. All this was done at the expense of credit resources, which, as a rule, are not paid on time, which accrued significant interest, not on market conditions. In fact, in the Kharkiv city Council has not yet created the team that would have asked the question Kernes and ourselves: “what\’s the Kharkiv city are we building?”
– Kernes – clever?
He\’s a very intelligent man. If he was stupid he wouldn\’t be who he is. Just for me, there are people with the sign of goodness, and there is a sign of evil. So it is not a sign of good.
– People in Kharkiv who say they love Kernes, mistaken, or he actually a good mayor?
Al Capone as mayor of Chicago, too many Chicagoans are respected, especially of Italian origin. But he finished poorly.
– What happened between Avakov and Kernes?
– This is a common betrayal. Kernes at the time, fawned Avakov, I have personally had the opportunity to watch it, but when he came to power, he did everything he could to settle the score with Avakov the most stringent ways. During the reign of the Party of regions, which over G. Kernes, before that visited Yushchenko\’s party our Ukraine, he has done everything possible to destroy business A. Avakov and its partners. Thanks to the cruel actions of the investigation, the financial Director of one of the companies that are close to Arsen Borisovich, jumped out of the window in the 2012th year.
Governor Kushnarev, very smart, killed, or he killed himself?
– It was an accident on the hunt. But my opinion is that the result of this murder were hanged not on the person who committed this homicide. It\’s not just my opinion. It was not premeditated murder, in my opinion, and the opinion of the court. But there are real questions about who really committed this fatal pull of the trigger.
– The Russians at the time were tired from Yanukovych, and put on Kushnarev. Is that so?
– Kushnarev was killed in January 2006. By the time the Russians could not manage to get tired of Yanukovych.
The Kernes said that he was ordered by Avakov. But Dobkin said Gerashchenko. He said it\’s a personal vendetta Gerashchenko. What you Avakov Kernes “ordered”?
– What they said is absolute nonsense. The reason for this nonsense is that Dobkin could take the pills from my brother, who uses them and then is in an interesting condition in a BP. I think it\’s the only normal explanation. I prepared a lawsuit against Dobkin on protection of honor and dignity. I\’m going to require Dobkin and the newspaper, which cited its absolute nonsense, apologies, as I don\’t have any relations to the order for the assassination and murder of Kernes and M. Dobkin.
– Who actually organized the attack on Kernes?
– Currently, the investigators have a specific suspect. One view is that it could make, in revenge, Zhilin, because Kernes provoked Zilina, he actively campaigned against independence, but then remained Kernes in Kharkov, and Zhilin with a lot of criminal cases in Russia, where he eventually shot and killed. Another version of that ill-wishers of G. Kernes are so many that it could be anyone.
– You humanly feel sorry for the Kernes, who is now in a wheelchair?
– Dobkin said that he would not give bail and is ready to go to jail. He behaves like a man, and I understand that he is a straight road in the second round of presidential elections. How stupid it was to do M. Dobkin such glory?
– When a year ago we appointed a General Prosecutor, Yu. Lutsenko, we gave him the right to make representations about removal of inviolability from deputies. Only he puts his signature on this document. This means that he must be sure that the document on the withdrawal of immunity will be sufficient grounds for the case to go to court and get a conviction. If it is not, then Dobkin will get a pardon, including from harassment and other issues. The charges that he\’s facing, nine years ago, irregularities in the allocation of land, perhaps, and most likely, was the place to be. But in this case, first and foremost, you need to bring to justice the persons who knew that this land cannot be selected and put their signatures. And only after that to ask questions to the deputies. There was a collective decision. So I\’m afraid that in court, the Prosecutor may not get the result, which calculates the attorney General. We lifted the immunity and Dovgy, and Dobkin in order that the court could assess their actions. It was obvious that according to this article, Dobkin will get bail. I have no doubt that friends Dobkin and he will make a Deposit of 50 million hryvnia, and it will be under him and not going anywhere. You will see that the words about wanting to sit in jail over bail.
– Dobkin behaved decently?
– If you compare it with Onishchenko or Nasirov, relative to them, he behaves with dignity. But it would be best if he didn\’t do all those negative things that he did for the city and for country: the unconditional support of Yanukovich, against the Maidan in Kyiv. Just the situation with the Maidan would cost to disassemble more serious. Nobody, not a single official was held accountable. And this is the task of the General Prosecutor of Ukraine. And here it would be much more understanding society, if there was clearly investigated these events. The only thing for Kernes in the Poltava court has been under consideration for two years, because there is a process of artificial prolongation of the proceedings by the accused. The expectation that this government will fall and need not be. Exactly the same strategy, Yanukovych, who is now doing everything to delay the case.
– And this government will fall?
– And it depends on us and from members of Parliament, and President Poroshenko. If we stop doing the dirty quarrels within the coalition, to make a war of all against all and to take the decisions that will be felt by every citizen, then this power will trust.
– Who and what killed O. Elderberry?
– There are two persons who are suspected in the murder. The consequence considers that these two young men killed O. Elder from motives of personal hatred or the desire to become famous. Other suspects in this case.
Revealed whether the murder of P. Sheremet?
– No, not solved. My personal opinion, involved the Russian special services. P. Sheremet, like Gongadze, was in a relationship with A. Pritula, editor pack. For Gongadze was followed by police, and killed a group of policemen headed by General Pukach. Apparently, according to Sheremet wanted to do the same scenario. It was stated that P. Sheremet watched V. Troyan, Deputy head of the National police. This information has launched, a group of Russian propaganda sites. Wanted to blame that the murder involved Sheremet Trojan Avakov, “Azov”, but failed because I made the same day and said that “Azov” was friends with P. Sheremet – I introduced the management of “Azov” with him. His latest post on the pack was in support of the battalion “Azov”.
And there is a trace of Moscow, stretching to the former Ukrainian authorities?
P. Sheremet worked on the radio “Vesti”, which belongs to A. Klimenko. Klimenko was invited to Berlin to Moscow a week before his death, where they had talks and Klimenko offered Sheremet head of the radio “Vesti”. P. Sheremet refused it, but a motive for the murder Sheremet extremely unreasonable and unlikely.
The motives for the murder Boronenkov known?
Killer D. Boronenkov was wanted in Ukraine for committing petty fiscal offences. After that, he was hiding in Russia, and as we understand, there were special training. He returned on foot from Belarus. After that he went to the battalion “Azov”, but it never took. He went to the battalion “Donbass” and have it there. The task was to get in some kind of voluntary Association and wait. He waited more than a year. In August 2016, he resigned from the battalion “Donbass” and then waited for team to kill. Dmitry Voronenkov died at 11:23, and his last text he texted me that he dropped me an interview with “Gordon” that I looked at him.
In January, the SBU prevented an attempt on you. What was it?
In December I was invited by the head of the SBU said that in Kiev from the occupied Crimea through Russia came two citizens, which tasked my elimination, presumably for my work associated with the project “the Peacemaker,” and for the active protection of interests of Ukraine in different spheres. These people, arriving in Kiev, addressed to the agent of the Russian intelligence services, who at that time had already been recruited by and was a double agent. Further, they are documented from all sides. They repeatedly returned to Russia, received a new team, led the negotiations on electronic messengers with representatives of the Russian special services. And when they went out to put explosives in the same way that P. Sheremet, or as the Colonel of intelligence M. Shapoval, they were detained by employees of SBU. The case is in court, there will be a jury trial. In this case two more persons will be declared internationally wanted, one a citizen of Ukraine and a member of the Russian special services, who directly supervised this operation.
This means that against any man who holds high office in Kiev, we can organize any kind of attack?
– It is easy. In September last year, was killed by a former major of the GRU I. Mamchur in Rivne. It turned out that it was revenge for his work in Georgia, when he in 2008 helped the Georgians to shoot down Russian planes from the Ukrainian BUK installations. In January there was an attack on me. Then there was the murder of D. Boronenkov. In April it was blown up the Colonel of SBU in Mariupol. Then there was the attempted Osmaeva, then the murder of Shapoval and the same day Colonel voznyi.
– What is the feeling of a man who knows what he was going to kill?
The first few days frustrating and then you get used to it.
– A lot of guns today in the hands of people in Ukraine?
– Officially – 900 thousand. Of them 130 thousand rifled and 800 with a “penny” smoothbore. And unregistered weapons no exact figure. Today we are allowed to have any kind of weapons except handguns.
– Is it necessary to legalize the weapon in Ukraine?
– This question should be put to consultative referendum.
– What Ukraine do with Russia?
– We need to arm ourselves, to strengthen, to make strong state that Russia was no longer able to destroy us, from within and attack us again. We should be South Korea, which side is North Korea. South Korea armed to the teeth, they have a modern army, a United people and a strong economy.
– Against us is the most powerful hybrid warfare. Who today it wins?
– Russia has not achieved the goals it wanted to deliver. If it has achieved its objectives, Ukraine would be divided into three parts. Another goal is to get elected President to be monitored from Russia in secret, to regain control of BP through a new election, as it was before. The fraction of Communists and half of the faction of the regions in the previous Parliament – it was the agents of Russia. Without Russia or one big decision in this country were not accepted.
Now the agents of Russia in Parliament also quite?
– They are not so much, but of course they are. It\’s the people who have common business with Russia, shared the estate. But their influence is not so great.
– Russia has an outstanding propaganda. Why do we have such a weak counter-propaganda?
– Money. Putin understood that he became President for six months because of television. So he seized control over the entire TV, not giving a critique. They take talented people, pay them generously. When we began to create a Ministry of information policy, there was a staff of 21 people and 4 million hryvnia budget. This Ministry needs the warring country to help protect our country. In the “Ministry of propaganda”, “DNR” staff of 130 people. About 500 people are responsible for the work in social networks. And this is allocated by the Russian budget.
Artists included in the website “the Peacemaker,” greetings you passed on?
– Lolita in the broadcast of Russian TV channels said that she\’s a witch and she will curse me. I can recommend the Russian artists not to violate the state border of Ukraine: when you fly from Russia to the Crimea, you violate our border. Want to come legally in Crimea was Ukraine, and then – through the Kherson region. Our guards will miss you – then you can pass. Makarevich, Grebenshchikov does not go to the Crimea. They understand that Russia has stolen Crimea, and did not feel right with his presence this theft to sanctify.
– A number of Russian popular artists here have lost markets valued at millions of dollars. Some of them offered you the bribes to be deleted from the site “Peacemaker”?
– No, because they understand that it is useless.
In Vitebsk at festival “Slavic Bazaar” went a delegation of our leading artists who will share the stage with artists of the aggressor country to sing, to dance and to show the friendship of Slavic peoples. Is this normal at all?
– We are not at war with the Russian people. He was, temporarily, under the yoke of dictator Putin, who is improving the lives of its people, trying to exalt in the eyes of Russians by the capture of the territories of our country. A dead-end of history he will be punished. Maybe someday the court. That\’s why our athletes compete with the athletes from Russia and the trip to Belarus – it\’s not too bad. But when our artists deliberately do business in Russia and earn there, this can be treated in different ways. Someone gives his assessment of these artists just do not go to their presentations.
– Do you agree that the NF is a bubble that has burst?
– Any party which during the war years calls for unpopular decisions may not be popular a priori. But still two weeks before election 14-year NF drew the figure of 5-6%. It turned out 22%. Yanukovych and his associates were firmly convinced that they came forever. The result is deplorable. Therefore Chicks hatched and I\’d really like to have citizens learn to look not only at the propaganda, and the substance of the issues. We started many reforms which are not yet completed, their completion will be clearly positive. Fugitive oligarch Onishchenko in an interview said that Petr Poroshenko asked him to Finance the company public censure NF. He named the figure of 30 million dollars. Of course, he cheated once in two or three, but, nevertheless, it is a fact. And when we in the state by different political forces that promote unity, behind each other engaged in public criticism and other intrigues, that in a country at war it will lead to no good.
– Ie, Peter A. “national front” does not like?
– It is an obvious fact.
– BP in its current form is a disgrace?
This BP better than the previous BP. For example, we don\’t make decisions about the delivery of our territory in the lease of the black sea fleet for 30 years. We make decisions that are trying gradually to lead our country on a clear European path of development and create conditions for economic development and business. Many citizens would like the wave of a magic wand, we have to live in Germany, or in Switzerland. It will not work. For this to work, respect the laws like in Switzerland or in Germany. For this we need to have faith. We have the same many people do not believe in Ukraine. The opinion polls show we have 25-30% of people still do not consider Ukraine as a state. It is the result of the fact that we have 15 years of free work by Russian propaganda, which undermined the trust of Ukrainians to their own state.
– How to change our corrupt and foul political elite?
– For this election we must choose not those who promises three packs of buckwheat, and those who say unpopular things. Only those people who are telling you the truth, this country can change.
– According to my information, the Secretary of state Tillerson in conversation with Poroshenko said that our Parliament is corrupt through and through and insisted on early elections to the Verkhovna Rada. Early elections will be?
– There will not be. First, don\’t quite believe that Tillerson said such things, and secondly, America is not profitable, so we can have a Parliament, which will be three times more supporters of the Russian Federation. Elections now, when the economic reform started, but not completed, will lead to the fact that in Parliament there will be more supporters of the Russian Federation.
– Why our many high-ranking officials hate Saakashvili?
If I personally believed that Saakashvili wants good for this country, I would personally help him in everything. I personally introduced Saakashvili Avakov, and see what came of it? Saakashvili was outlasted in the Odessa region, was waiting for the results of the elections in Georgia. He wasn\’t really the Governor. He expected that his party will score a high percentage and he can return to Georgia. But his party suffered a crushing defeat, thanks to his inept policies, his statements that he would return to Georgia and take all. Today in his party, where there were 26 deputies were 5. He is a complete political bankruptcy in the country. So he makes everything to seem good to the Ukrainian people. But frantic PR and his clumsy actions is wrong and unfair.
– Do I need to significantly increase salaries to officials, giving them social benefits and to toughen the laws?
Only the official who receives the sufficient level of salary and competent enough to make decisions that will improve the standard of living for the entire country. The British had two hundred years ago, paying decent salaries for officials and judges, and therefore they had a hundred years of order and economic development. Can\’t work with competent people at the minimum wage.
– How do you lose weight?
– I keep myself at the level. Was just trying to eat less and move more.
– How much do you weigh now?
– Weighed in at 160 kg, down to 115-118.
– Ukraine will break?
– I believe in it, work it, and ready not to spare himself and his life for this.
– Are you an idealist?
The more idealist than pragmatist. To change if you\’re just a pragmatist, it is impossible. It is necessary to believe in ideals.
– Win an idealist or pragmatists?
– Must be a reasonable balance between idealists and pragmatists.
– I\’m thankful for honest and sincere answers.