Anatoly Chubais — RBC: “the Consumer does not know what happiness awaits him”

“There is a reasonable correct slogans, and have a real life”

— Net profit of “RUSNANO” has grown over the year 2015, more than doubling from RUB 8.2 billion to almost 17 billion rubles Last year for you has been successful, judging by statements. You said that the Corporation has completed the first period and starts the second. What division into periods, as defined by borders, by what criteria?

— We have not invented anything. We may not immediately realize who we are, not understand that we are for the animal. But when understood, adopted a new strategy, and everything fell into place. In fact, we belong to the class of private equity, “venture capital funds”. This means that the investment cycle lasts from six to ten years. The first investment we deployed exactly eight years ago, and now they are completed, we start the wave of exits. That is why we say that we are nearing the end of the first investment period.

At the same time start the next stage — creating new funds. In 2014 we collected in addition to its 7 billion rubles the same amount of external funds last year attracted 16 bn to 16 bn By 2016, the figure is good, but we lacked until desired option: it turned out that we created six funds, three of which collapsed in December last year. Each one had their reasons, but it was very disappointing.

— How the outputs from profitable projects for RUSNANO? Give examples, please.

— Last year, income from the outputs amounted to several billion rubles (3.7 billion rubles, follows from the statements of the company — approx. RBC) . For example, we went from Bryansk company “Metaclay”. Came at a very early stage, when it was a classical startapy with several employees. In the Bryansk region is the Deposit of a special clay. It’s such nanostrukturirovannye clay, the processing of which you can get a wide range of products from the linings under the railroad tracks that connects or disconnects the opposite rails and sleepers, to the coating gas pipes.

First, we understood that the technology works in principle or not. Then began “tipping” the market to determine what this set can go, and prove that we have quality effective products. In the end, I decided to venture into the market of coatings for gas pipes. In this field there is a company with a world name, which at that time held 90% of the market, while the Russian share was not at all. The next three years, we have consistently agreed with our pipe manufacturing plants — Chelyabinsk tube rolling, TMK and so on. It was not easy.

— The substitution is selected the path for the country…

There’s a good reasonable slogans, and have a real life. Our competitors for a long time and have long worked with Russian companies, they at all levels of management understand who influence the decisions, how they were taken and other details. In the case of “Metalium”, for example, joined Gazprom. They could disengage, saying to us, sort it out themselves, but took absolutely a certain position to maintain. Moreover, it was a frontal support, including Alexey Miller personally. But even in this situation, end customers require not slogans but the results of factory tests. We tried the coating on each of the plants, which in turn were not happy.

Nevertheless, the result: last year the company came out with almost zero digit [revenue] more than 6 billion rubles this year will be more than 8 billion rubles as of right now the “Metaclay”, according to our estimates, 60% of the market. So our mission is fulfilled: we are from nothing, from the start, brought the company to a large industrial enterprise, which is now the market leader. The difference between the entrance and exit for us — more than 1.5 times.

An exclusive interview of Anatoly Chubais
Video: RBC

— Are there competitive technologies currently capable of producing Russia?

— I don’t agree that Russia is behind in all areas, although the chances for a breakthrough and not everywhere equally high. For example, the domestic microelectronics is developing quite successfully, although to catch up with the next generation of technology we are unlikely. While in certain areas there is a very serious backlog. In the field related to the production of modern materials, we already had a real breakthrough world-class. If we can bring your project to the end, we are talking about a company that market capitalization will be at the level of “Gazprom”.

— Will reveal details?

— I have opened, and more than once. No one believes. But today our Bureau of nanotubes — “oxycalm drops”, which began with three and a half people, with the laboratory setup, and has reached the point that the world’s first solved the problem of manufacturing carbon nanotubes on an industrial scale. For example, when adding less than 1% of the material aluminum that is stronger than titanium. We are in 2014, produced the world’s first 200 kg of carbon nanotubes, the global market then was 2 tons. In 2015 we produced 1.2 tons, this year — at least 2.5 tons. We are going to create a market. Only in this market need to establish simultaneously and the consumer. Because the consumer does not know what happiness awaits him, we have to convince. We work with dozens of companies across the globe, from Samsung to the largest Russian corporations, and waiting for a breakthrough at the global level.

“The main thing — results, not promises”

That more effective way — funds or direct investments?

In this fork we have spent hundreds of hours have filled many cones. Came to the conclusion that the funds in relation to direct investments for us — it is about how the University compared to secondary school. If you dare to open the Fund, you need to pass school. And we were making investments on the balance sheet. We made mistakes, but managed to escape — made it to profits, with the second year in a row. When you have proven that you know how to work with projects, the second step can present it to potential investors, for whom the main thing — results, not promises. Exactly this have happened. Therefore, the shift in funds is at the core of the second investment period.

— In terms of sanctions, so to speak, where to take money? Inside the country? In Asia?

You know, I don’t really agree with sometimes found bravado about sanctions: still, think, don’t care will do it ourselves, they say. No, guys do care. The current situation substantially complicates the solution of technological problems. However, the situation is them and tear: we have no project, which would collapse due to the presence of sanctions. Harder — Yes, slower — Yes, somewhere there were failures in the past year. However, we do not abandon their strategy and understand exactly how to implement it.

First of all, we already have, as I said, established funds. We have partners, including Chinese companies. For example, one of our partners — the University, managing assets of over $200 billion They came up with the idea of creating a joint Fund because they need the internationalization, which means that the foreign partner. We agreed, signed the documents, turned out to be a challenging but interesting construction of the Russian-Chinese-Israeli Fund. In Israel we will look for start-UPS, and then translate them into industrial technology in China and in Russia. In Israel we have a strong team is.

— Who do you private Russian partners?

— For Example, Vladimir Yevtushenkov. We have created a Fund. He was entrusted under the joint management of their private funds that are “mixed” with our public money.

— Why have you requested 89 billion rubles for the Russian-Indian Fund? What the Fund should do?

— I want not to tell about it. Imagine that this money will not be in any form, let’s completely forget about them. We have a document, approved by the Board of Directors and approved by the Government. This is a long term business plan until 2020. Inside it is a financial model, according to which “Rosnano” in the following periods there is a reasonable basis for attracting external investments, there are balances at the end of the year, which are guaranteed by the airbag, which had no failures and so on.

In this document there is no involvement of any kind — neither the budget nor the resources of the national welfare Fund, nothing. There is only a clear strategy, on which we are moving forward. And next to the policy you receive the idea: while it’s still early stages of this idea called India. It is no secret that Russia has with India is a serious communication in the field of high technologies.

— First of all, military.

— You are absolutely right. Russia is supplying the Indian markets with huge volumes. Let’s for a moment forget, military or not military, it’s pure tech. India export, certainly one of the largest may be, incidentally, the largest Russian market. And in this market are now unusual events. For example, Russia’s share in the Indian market declines, our competitors consistently evade us. What? Largely on the fact that the crux of the matter or the basis for the policy of the Prime Minister of India, and it is expressed in the famous slogan of Made in India.

The government of India is not satisfied with the exports, they want to be in the country any industrial enterprise with our participation. We say: well, yesterday we supplied you with just the products and give out with you tomorrow, dear Indian partners, will build the plant on Russian technology on your site. We are ready to build the plant. Even a whole series of plants in India.

— What kind of technologies are we talking, exactly?

While approved projects no. On top of what comes, — helicopters, planes and so on. We have reached with the Indian government understanding, signed together with the Ministry of Finance of India the so-called Memorandum of understanding. It indicates a specific amount, and this is the starting point to move forward. There is equal partnership of the parties 50 to 50. While we understand that this task requires a special funding mechanism, because the long-term plan: to go from idea to built the factory, and abroad, this is a great story. Eight years is an optimistic scenario, actually it can be 10, 12 years.

Today we are on our guarantees, we can take loans, build the plant, leave plant, refundable credit, the return percentage. With about the loans in the Russian market you all know as well as I if under 12% — you got lucky. For long-term funds, the financing is completely impossible. The national welfare Fund, which is being actively discussed, is one possible option. There may be other. But now still early to speak of the subject.

— You requested the funds in writing. The answer came?

— There is a presidential Commission to work out a query that now and becomes relevant ministries, departments, administration. In the study involved and our companies, and technology partners.

“We need to share the emotions and legal structure”

— Now creates the Agency for technological development, supervised by Arkady Dvorkovich. Is this structure? This can be interpreted as an attempt of the state to reformat the entire system of innovative development?

— Dvorkovich the work is overseen, but the responsibility for the creation of this Agency assigned to the Ministry of industry, Denis Manturov. Recently had a great meeting with Dmitry Medvedev on this. Created Agency should do a special, but very important link in the whole construction of an innovation ecosystem, intellectual property, its legislative protection and to ensure the correct schemes of transfer. As I understand it, it is a very restrained budget for the Agency, moreover, there had been only about the current year, and then it must start making money on the market. To the idea of creating a single Corporation, the Agency for technological development exactly.

— How do you like the idea of creating a single Corporation?

You know, it’s like in Soviet times, the concept of consolidation of farms is the breaking up of collective farms. Here to enlarge all our farms no one is going, as far as I know. It’s another to create, in the government of the so-called project office that will be, but in a sense, by the customer or the coordinator of the existing institutions of innovative development, SKOLKOVO, RVC, us, our other colleagues. I think that’s a reasonable aspiration.

Still, the development institutions were not created at one time, each slightly their tasks… the Need somehow harder to coordinate all of us, apparently, have. But I’m not from their position, and with governmental look. I guess it is reasonable, we are not its opponents. Another thing — if you go to the idea all together pour, stir, this will surely be the beginning of the end. But fortunately, again, this way no one is moving.

— At the Congress of entrepreneurs, many said that one of the factors brakes — excessive state involvement in the economy. In this regard, I cannot but ask about the upcoming privatization. It really imminent?

— The question, rather, not to me but to the government. We have no problem of privatization. RUSNANO, as you know, it’s not one company, but two: joint-stock company (JSC), which belongs to the state on 100%, and the management company (MC). In our strategy at some point was the idea of privatization of JSC, we are the same she refused, petitioned the government on this occasion. We have heard, was removed from the privatization plan. So we were and are public. The assets we create and the revenues from outputs of the projects — from the state. Management there are no assets, there is only a management contract. All of us, including me, work in the UK. This company should be private, if we want to live in the industry, attract foreign money and so on.

All this is inherent in our strategy, approved in 2014. It says in black and white: the JSC will be the state, and the criminal code must be redeemed by the partners. In fact, at the end of 2015, the new development strategy, this thesis is backed up, and this year we have to make the first practical steps to move in this direction.

— In talking about the new wave of privatization all remember the previous one, especially in light of the charges of the Investigative Committee to the former owners of Yukos in violation of the rules of mortgaging auctions. Don’t you think that it is time to put an end to these disputes? After all, the next revision of negates and impending privatization — no one will spend money if there is a risk that in 10-15 years all over again replay.

— The more stability, the better the investment climate is obvious. At the same time, it’s not black and white, and a more complicated situation. I don’t know the logic of the Investigative Committee, who argues that the pledge auction to Yukos was illegal. And to judge by public statements I am not ready. At the time we were pretty serious conflicts around the privatization. Including they pertained to the implementation, or rather, failure Yukos investment program. And we showed the company claims. On my instructions the Russian Fund of Federal property has addressed in court with the requirement to ensure the implementation of the investment programme.

— Many said that the very essence of illegal shares auctions.

— On all loan auctions have been numerous lawsuits attempting to invalidate. Offended parties were, if not in all, in 90% of cases. Now in none of these processes no collateral illegal auction was not recognized. Need to share the emotions and legal structure.